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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>derive(debug) and serde_json in std · general · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/index.html">general</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html">derive(debug) and serde_json in std</a></h3>

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<a name="200562605"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200562605" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200562605">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello, I had a question regarding how <code>{:?}</code> and <code>{:#?}</code> are displayed, in particular, I wanted to ask that is the behaviour of giving valid JSON output for <code>{:?}</code> intended and will it be retained in the future?</p>



<a name="200562675"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200562675" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200562675">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>for context:<br>
<code>{:?}</code> output</p>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><code><span class="p">{</span><span class="nt">&quot;irc&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="p">{</span><span class="nt">&quot;topic&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;IRC&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;server&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;irc.freenode.net&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;nickname&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;zuliptesting&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;channel&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;#wikimedia-bots-testing&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;stream&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;goodbot&quot;</span><span class="p">},</span> <span class="nt">&quot;api&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="p">{</span><span class="nt">&quot;key&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;xxx&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;site&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;https://wikimedia.zulipchat.com&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;test1&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="nt">&quot;email&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;good-bot@zulipchat.com&quot;</span><span class="p">}}</span>
</code></pre></div>


<p><code>{:#?}</code> output:</p>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><code><span class="p">{</span>
    <span class="nt">&quot;irc&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="p">{</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;server&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;irc.freenode.net&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;nickname&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;zuliptesting&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;stream&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;goodbot&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;topic&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;IRC&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;channel&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;#wikimedia-bots-testing&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
    <span class="p">},</span>
    <span class="nt">&quot;api&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="p">{</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;site&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;https://wikimedia.zulipchat.com&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;test1&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;key&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;xxx&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
        <span class="nt">&quot;email&quot;</span><span class="p">:</span> <span class="s2">&quot;good-bot@zulipchat.com&quot;</span><span class="p">,</span>
    <span class="p">},</span>
<span class="p">}</span>
</code></pre></div>



<a name="200562881"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200562881" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jonas Schievink  [he/him] <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200562881">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>The output is implementation-defined and may change between Rust versions</p>



<a name="200562949"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200562949" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> simulacrum <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200562949">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>if you want JSON output the way to go is serde_json</p>



<a name="200562957"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200562957" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200562957">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>for json output you probably want the <code>serde</code> crate and <code>serde_json</code></p>



<a name="200563099"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563099" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563099">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:48)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="307289">Poliorcetics</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug)/near/200562957">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>for json output you probably want the <code>serde</code> crate and <code>serde_json
</code></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I am fine with a json string and the std provides it alright, i just wanted to ask if it's intended, otherwise i'll write my own or use the defined behaviour</p>



<a name="200563221"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563221" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563221">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="211727">Jonas Schievink</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug)/near/200562881">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The output is implementation-defined and may change between Rust versions</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Implementation means the structure I'm calling it on, like "HashMap"?</p>



<a name="200563362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563362">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>It means "it's not documented and you cannot rely on it"</p>



<a name="200563395"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563395" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563395">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, not cannot, more "should not"</p>



<a name="200563587"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563587" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563587">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:52)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="307289">Poliorcetics</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug)/near/200563362">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It means "it's not documented and you cannot rely on it"</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Got it, thanks! I think it's a good implementation to retain (in any case). I don't have a hard and fast need so I'll consider writing my own solution later on. Thanks for the help, everyone <span aria-label="grinning face with smiling eyes" class="emoji emoji-1f601" role="img" title="grinning face with smiling eyes">:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:</span></p>



<a name="200563749"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563749" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563749">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>No problem <span aria-label="slight smile" class="emoji emoji-1f642" role="img" title="slight smile">:slight_smile:</span><br>
If it's for a personal project a quick-and-dirty implementation is more than good enough, but if you need something bigger/more polished, <code>serde</code> is really really cool</p>



<a name="200563956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200563956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200563956">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>serde_json should probably be put into std given how ubiquitous it is</p>



<a name="200564044"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564044" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564044">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think so, mainly because it allows it to evolve without being constrained by the stability guarantees of the std</p>



<a name="200564166"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564166" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564166">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>there's only so much a json module can do (or should do rather)</p>



<a name="200564262"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564262" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564262">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Like, if a new JSON standard comes out tomorrow, serde can just update and publish a new version without a 6 weeks beta cycle</p>



<a name="200564390"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564390" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564390">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:56)</a>:</h4>
<p><strong>and</strong> without breaking any previously working code with the new version</p>



<a name="200564447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564447">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>i don't think that's an issue because after the RFC adoption is always gradual and quite often more than 6 weeks</p>



<a name="200564541"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564541" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564541">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>backwards compatibility is nice, but its cost is infinite, so the less there is in the std, the less the maintainers have to think about</p>



<a name="200564654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564654">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>Python has a saying "the std is where library go to die" and it's easily applicable to a lot of other languages</p>



<a name="200564728"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564728" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564728">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Rust has managed to avoid that IMO, which is a very good thing I think</p>



<a name="200564795"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564795" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564795">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it's a fruitful std, the issue is with Python's PEP system being so slow to adapt to changes</p>



<a name="200564807"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200564807" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> HeroicKatora <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200564807">(Jun 11 2020 at 15:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also <code>serde_json</code> is far from complete. It lacks <code>no_std</code> support, the very structure of its <code>Value</code> implies deeply nsted recursive destructor calls, and it can not do stream deserialization or async serialization (correct me if I did miss a release).</p>



<a name="200565048"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565048" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565048">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>solutions in std are not for 100% use-cases but to work on a limited of use-cases perfectly (such as with std structures)</p>



<a name="200565282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565282">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe serde is not there yet (i don't know) but if ever, it would probably make a good addition because it's used widely, not that it should be in std but i'd like to see ubiquitous needs being added to std</p>



<a name="200565345"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565345" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565345">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's an opinion but I don't think JSON parsing should be added to the std over any other description language parsing</p>



<a name="200565381"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565381" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565381">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>If JSON is added, then it will be BSON, then TOML, then something else</p>



<a name="200565451"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565451" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565451">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>.json is the only universal format tbh (hence why it's used everywhere), bson/yaml/toml are not even close</p>



<a name="200565546"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565546" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565546">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>The cost is very very high and cargo allows us to bypass the pains that exist in other languages about external libraries</p>



<a name="200565555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> HeroicKatora <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565555">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd rather see something added to <code>crates.io</code> or registries and cargo that make the difference between inclusion in <code>std</code> and crates outside matter less.</p>



<a name="200565606"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565606" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565606">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>But this discussion is not about <code>derive(debug)</code> anymore</p>



<a name="200565624"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565624" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Poliorcetics <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565624">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>A new topic would be better</p>



<a name="200565638"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565638" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565638">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah xD now it's about serde_json being into std</p>



<a name="200565743"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200565743" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200565743">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:05)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="229913">HeroicKatora</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std/near/200565555">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I'd rather see something added to <code>crates.io</code> or registries and cargo that make the difference between inclusion in <code>std</code> and crates outside matter less.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>like default installation which is more than std?</p>



<a name="200567521"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/122651-general/topic/derive%28debug%29%20and%20serde_json%20in%20std/near/200567521" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> qedk <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/122651-general/topic/derive(debug).20and.20serde_json.20in.20std.html#200567521">(Jun 11 2020 at 16:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>(deleted)</p>



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